Audio By Carbonatix
In his first public testimony about his criminal investigations of Donald Trump, former special counsel Jack Smith said the president was responsible for the violence on 6 January 2021, when hundreds of rioters stormed the US Capitol.
Smith told a congressional committee that he believed his team had “proof beyond a reasonable doubt” and enough evidence to win convictions against Trump in both cases they had prosecuted - one into Trump's alleged attempts to overturn the 2020 election and the other into accusations that he illegally retained classified documents after leaving office the first time.
Trump pleaded not guilty in both cases, which were dropped once he returned to the White House last year.
On New Year's Eve, the Republican-led committee released 255 pages of transcripts of testimony Smith gave in private about the criminal cases, but Thursday's five-hour hearing was the public's first chance to hear him speak about it.
The lawmakers broke little new ground in their questions, with Republicans repeating accusations that the prosecutions were partisan attacks on Trump and that Smith was spying on certain Republican lawmakers by seeking subpoenas for their phone records. Democrats, meanwhile, targeted Trump's alleged wrongdoing involving the 6 January riot and applauded Smith and his investigations.
Here are four takeaways from the hearing.
Smith doesn’t regret charging Trump
Smith told lawmakers that he did not regret his decision to charge Trump in both felony indictments.
"If asked whether to prosecute a former president based on the same facts today, I would do so regardless of whether that president was a Republican or a Democrat," he said. "No one should be above the law in our country, and the law required that he be held to account. So that is what I did."
The former special counsel said his team had collected “overwhelming evidence” that could have secured convictions in both cases.
"The evidence here made clear that President Trump was, by a large measure, the most culpable and most responsible person in this conspiracy," Smith said about the election interference case.
Crimes committed on 6 January were for Trump's benefit, Smith contended.
"The attack that happened at the Capitol, part of this case, does not happen without him,” he said. “The other co-conspirators were doing this for his benefit."
Smith expects Trump to continue to target him
One lawmaker asked if Smith expected to be indicted by the Justice Department over his investigations. Attorney General Pam Bondi currently leads the department and has close ties to Trump.
“I believe they will do everything in their power to do that because they have been ordered to by the president,” said Smith, who was appointed by former Attorney General Merrick Garland during the Biden administration.
Trump’s repeated statements about him and the investigations “are meant to intimidate me”, Smith added.
“I will not be intimidated," he said. "I think these statements are also made as a warning to others of what will happen if they stand up."
Over the summer, federal officials opened an investigation into Smith. What specifically is being looked into is unclear, but the Office of the Special Counsel, which opened the investigation, does not have the authority to charge him criminally. It can only initiate disciplinary action or refer its findings to the justice department.
After the hearing, Trump posed on social media: "Based on his testimony today, there is no question that Deranged Jack Smith should be prosecuted for his actions."
Lawmakers' views of 6 January remain partisan
Four former Capitol Police officers who sat in the row behind Smith at the hearing frequently became animated when lawmakers referred to them.
The four, who were protecting Capitol Hill on 6 January, have been vocal about their frustration of how that day has been described by Trump and Republicans in recent years.
Many Republican lawmakers - some who initially condemned the attack - now say Trump did not incite rioters and demonstrators did not commit wrongdoing.
During the hearing, Texas Republican Troy Nehls specifically addressed the officers and said blame for the riot lay with the US Capitol Police, not with Trump.
“You were all unprepared to deal with that day, and that’s because your leadership failed to share the intelligence with you,” Nehls said. “It was their fault, it was not President Trump.”
That comment led to one of the many times in the hearing when members of the audience shouted at lawmakers.
Smith was also asked about Trump's mass pardon on his first day back at the White House of more than 1,000 people convicted or accused of crimes related to the riot. Many had been charged with assaulting or interfering with law enforcement.
The former special counsel said he could not understand why Trump pardoned them, and that "all of us, if we’re reasonable, know that there’s going to be more crimes committed by these people in the future".
“I do not understand why you would mass pardon people who assaulted police officers," he said. "I don’t get it. I never will.”
After his testimony wrapped, Smith shook all four former officers‘ hands.
Trump is still paying attention to Smith
While Smith fielded lawmakers' questions, Trump, who was returning from the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, posted commentary about the hearing.
“Deranged Jack Smith is being DECIMATED before Congress," the president said in a TruthSocial post. "It was over when they discussed his past failures and unfair prosecutions."
Trump accused Smith of destroying “many lives under the guise of legitimacy”.
“Jack Smith is a deranged animal who shouldn't be allowed to practice Law,” the president went on to say. “If he were a Republican, his license would be taken away from him, and far worse!"
Trump added that he hoped "the Attorney General is looking at what he's done" and called out Democrats, saying that "a big price should be paid by them for what they have put our Country through”.
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